2019-20 Wrestling proposals

First off, this weekends event was amazing. It’s a step in the right direction and it gave every kid in the state the opportunity to challenge themselves vs the top competition.

To recap the season let’s shares some ides that will improve next years wrestling season. It would be great to share our ideas with coaches, AD’s and the AIA. Here are a few to start:

• Continue to improve woman’s wrestling. Watching how California ran their state tournament this past weekend it proves it can be done. Before this season, our girls have followed the same rules as the boys. They don’t need a separate set of rules. Hopefully next year they’re matches are 2-2-2 with the same rules.

• Allow out of state competition/ prep schools wrestle our schools. Some will agree, some will argue but give our top schools who like to compete vs the best have the opportunity to do so.
Majority of other states do so. This will help our kids get recognition when they beat ranked wrestlers.

• Bring back awards such as Sectional wrestler of the year for each section and outstanding wrestler at state for each division.

• I would favor medaling top 4 at state And keep 3-4 divisions than have only one division at this time. Our goal is to grow the sport. It’s continuing to grow. I could see smalls schools cutting programs if their were only 1 division.

• Could we make Mile High the go to tournament in the state? It has the room and ability to do so. Peoria and Flowing Wells are great tournaments but lack gym size. (I’m not hating on any tournaments. The FW tournament in the 90’s was amazing at the TCC).

• What are your thoughts on inviting 8th grade State Champions to HS state?
 
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Doc Wright is held at a tremendous venue and is as well run as it gets...highly recommend that one. The field this year was very, very deep (although not too top heavy)...that community there is also a hidden gem.
 

Tommy James

Well-Known Member
2019-2020 wish list


Girls wrestling needs to change to having the same boy rules. Our trial year is done so let’s get the training wheels off.


I feel like state should remain the same as it allows wrestling to bless the lives of a lot more people. If you can check out the interview from Poway’s legendary coach at the California state championship. It’s really worth a watch. It talks about going multi division will help grow the sport. I’m from California and I feel like AZ has an amazing thing going on here with the different divisions. Continue to run the one true champion for those who want that higher caliber competition. BTW I had my kids wrestle there and it was an amazing experience.


Dual state championships would be a lot of fun.


Division dual championships would be a fun event to watch IMO. I say this idea from another post that it would be cool to see all the number ones represent their divisions in an all-star dual.


Let’s get the state talking and more involved. Push the forum and social media. If we want our sport to be mainstreamed we need to start talking about it ourselves.
 

chingon76

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2019-2020 wish list


Girls wrestling needs to change to having the same boy rules. Our trial year is done so let’s get the training wheels off.


I feel like state should remain the same as it allows wrestling to bless the lives of a lot more people. If you can check out the interview from Poway’s legendary coach at the California state championship. It’s really worth a watch. It talks about going multi division will help grow the sport. I’m from California and I feel like AZ has an amazing thing going on here with the different divisions. Continue to run the one true champion for those who want that higher caliber competition. BTW I had my kids wrestle there and it was an amazing experience.


Dual state championships would be a lot of fun.


Division dual championships would be a fun event to watch IMO. I say this idea from another post that it would be cool to see all the number ones represent their divisions in an all-star dual.


Let’s get the state talking and more involved. Push the forum and social media. If we want our sport to be mainstreamed we need to start talking about it ourselves.
Girls should only be doing freestyle. That’s what they are competing in in college.
 
I love that we have girls wrestling now! Let's keep it going now! Freestyle for the girls would be great. But the officials costs will kill you. 3 officials per mat. And we don't have enough freestyle officials in the state. Most are either wrestling or coaching. I can think of maybe 5 who wouldn't be. I think the best and most cost effective way is same rules as the boys.
When I was in Utah they use to do an unofficial state dual meet tournament per each classification. I believe it was headed up by the coaches association. We also had/have the all-star dual the beginning of January. UHSAA made it a sanctioned event but it was exempt from for the individuals and teams when it came to dates and weight ins. It's been a great event. U don't get all 4 state champs but u get good match-up that might not happen otherwise.
I do wish that the dates and weigh it's were associated with the kid and not the team. It would allow for more things and different competition.
 

Tommy James

Well-Known Member
Considering what ERAU said I don’t see it ever happening in the AIA. That would not be cost effective for the AIA. Unless it went old school with just one ref then I see it happening.
 
2 divisions for the girls, D1 & D2 schools together and D3 & D4 schools together. That way it allows the girls to wrestle both days with the boys and have wrestle backs. Single elimination was unfair to the girls imo. As far as rules go, I think their should be a hybrid of freestyle and folk-style rules. Getting these girls as much freestyle as possible so they are prepared to move on and compete nationally, as well as in college, should be the goal.
 
Money isn’t an issue with the AIA. They can easily afford referees for woman’s freestyle.

Preparing our girls for college is the objective. So having their season be strictly freestyle should be happening.
 
No doubt the AIA has the money but do the individual school? And again as of right now there are not enough freestyle referees in the state of Arizona.
 

Coachdoerr

Well-Known Member
I love that we have girls wrestling now! Let's keep it going now! Freestyle for the girls would be great. But the officials costs will kill you. 3 officials per mat. And we don't have enough freestyle officials in the state. Most are either wrestling or coaching. I can think of maybe 5 who wouldn't be. I think the best and most cost effective way is same rules as the boys.
When I was in Utah they use to do an unofficial state dual meet tournament per each classification. I believe it was headed up by the coaches association. We also had/have the all-star dual the beginning of January. UHSAA made it a sanctioned event but it was exempt from for the individuals and teams when it came to dates and weight ins. It's been a great event. U don't get all 4 state champs but u get good match-up that might not happen otherwise.
I do wish that the dates and weigh it's were associated with the kid and not the team. It would allow for more things and different competition.
I honestly feel that one freestyle Ref per mat would be ok. There is no need for judges like internationally. I do not think there are 3 refs per Mat for women’s college matches. I do agree 100% that he girls division needs to be freestyle.
 
Again I am all for freestyle! I'd even be OK if all high school and college went to it. But......Even with one I can only think of 4 adult freestyle refs in the state that wouldn't be coaching. Another problem will be coaching. Coaches will have to modify practice. Freestyle and folkstyle are 2 different animals if coached correctly. Again I'm for it but it's a huge transition! I think it's will grow faster if we just do all folkstyle rules for now.
 

chingon76

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Again I am all for freestyle! I'd even be OK if all high school and college went to it. But......Even with one I can only think of 4 adult freestyle refs in the state that wouldn't be coaching. Another problem will be coaching. Coaches will have to modify practice. Freestyle and folkstyle are 2 different animals if coached correctly. Again I'm for it but it's a huge transition! I think it's will grow faster if we just do all folkstyle rules for now.
The talk has been to the hope that girls will become a spring sport. The benefits of this will be great.
 

chingon76

Well-Known Member
Staff member
as girls wrestling is "piggy backing" on boys wrestling season right now... it is a disservice to the girls and coaches. Some teams are focused on the boys and girls are only getting round about coaching in the room. Some coaches are holding separate practices for girls. In the end it is more beneficial to make girls wrestling its own season. It makes sense to hold it in spring since that is Freestyle season anyway.
 

BKramer

Well-Known Member
I am going to throw this out there and see if others react to it in a way that may make it worthwhile to have a conversation about...: it seems to me that representation at state from the regions is very disproportional in terms of quality. Some regions in some weights in some years are stacked...and in other years, not so much. Wouldn't it be great if we could allocate spots at state in a weight class based on the region's strength in a particular weight class? I know this has come up numerous times over the years but until recently, we haven't really had the means by which to do the allocation independently and based on data.

I am a data scientist - this is what I do for a living. Every day we run advanced algorithms to classify people, things, machines, opinions, etc...and this scenario isn't much different and I have some ideas on how it could be done. Sure, it has some challenges, mainly data related, but I believe with some historical data, we could come up with a way to allocate spots based on depth/quality within that division > region > weight class. We could test it out and see where our algorithm is strong...and weak. Where does it "hit" and where does it "miss"?...and adjust accordingly. I wouldn't try to convince the AIA to go to such a system in year 1, but if we could get historical data, design a system, and then test it out next year, that could be a way forward. Me and my team could do the work for free.

Here is my question: Is this something coaches would get behind? Woo, at the high school level, do I need to talk to? Who needs to be on board and champion this politically? Obviously Dean Visser is key but what/who would it take to open up the conversation?

I would love to hear what people think.

Brett
 

chingon76

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I am going to throw this out there and see if others react to it in a way that may make it worthwhile to have a conversation about...: it seems to me that representation at state from the regions is very disproportional in terms of quality. Some regions in some weights in some years are stacked...and in other years, not so much. Wouldn't it be great if we could allocate spots at state in a weight class based on the region's strength in a particular weight class? I know this has come up numerous times over the years but until recently, we haven't really had the means by which to do the allocation independently and based on data.

I am a data scientist - this is what I do for a living. Every day we run advanced algorithms to classify people, things, machines, opinions, etc...and this scenario isn't much different and I have some ideas on how it could be done. Sure, it has some challenges, mainly data related, but I believe with some historical data, we could come up with a way to allocate spots based on depth/quality within that division > region > weight class. We could test it out and see where our algorithm is strong...and weak. Where does it "hit" and where does it "miss"?...and adjust accordingly. I wouldn't try to convince the AIA to go to such a system in year 1, but if we could get historical data, design a system, and then test it out next year, that could be a way forward. Me and my team could do the work for free.

Here is my question: Is this something coaches would get behind? Woo, at the high school level, do I need to talk to? Who needs to be on board and champion this politically? Obviously Dean Visser is key but what/who would it take to open up the conversation?

I would love to hear what people think.

Brett
I think AIA would like the word free :)
 

Coach Bombay

New Member
First off, this weekends event was amazing. It’s a step in the right direction and it gave every kid in the state the opportunity to challenge themselves vs the top competition.

To recap the season let’s shares some ides that will improve next years wrestling season. It would be great to share our ideas with coaches, AD’s and the AIA. Here are a few to start:

• Continue to improve woman’s wrestling. Watching how California ran their state tournament this past weekend it proves it can be done. Before this season, our girls have followed the same rules as the boys. They don’t need a separate set of rules. Hopefully next year they’re matches are 2-2-2 with the same rules.

• Allow out of state competition/ prep schools wrestle our schools. Some will agree, some will argue but give our top schools who like to compete vs the best have the opportunity to do so.
Majority of other states do so. This will help our kids get recognition when they beat ranked wrestlers.

• Bring back awards such as Sectional wrestler of the year for each section and outstanding wrestler at state for each division.

• I would favor medaling top 4 at state And keep 3-4 divisions than have only one division at this time. Our goal is to grow the sport. It’s continuing to grow. I could see smalls schools cutting programs if their were only 1 division.

• Could we make Mile High the go to tournament in the state? It has the room and ability to do so. Peoria and Flowing Wells are great tournaments but lack gym size. (I’m not hating on any tournaments. The FW tournament in the 90’s was amazing at the TCC).

• What are your thoughts on inviting 8th grade State Champions to HS state?



Here are things that must change. Single elimination needs to go and go away for good with girls wrestling especially at the bigger tournaments like state and sectionals. We need to transition girls wrestling into freestyle to prepare Arizona girls for college wrestling. The last thing, we need to add a 225+ girls weight class.
 

Hawestriker

Member
I am going to throw this out there and see if others react to it in a way that may make it worthwhile to have a conversation about...: it seems to me that representation at state from the regions is very disproportional in terms of quality. Some regions in some weights in some years are stacked...and in other years, not so much. Wouldn't it be great if we could allocate spots at state in a weight class based on the region's strength in a particular weight class? I know this has come up numerous times over the years but until recently, we haven't really had the means by which to do the allocation independently and based on data.

I am a data scientist - this is what I do for a living. Every day we run advanced algorithms to classify people, things, machines, opinions, etc...and this scenario isn't much different and I have some ideas on how it could be done. Sure, it has some challenges, mainly data related, but I believe with some historical data, we could come up with a way to allocate spots based on depth/quality within that division > region > weight class. We could test it out and see where our algorithm is strong...and weak. Where does it "hit" and where does it "miss"?...and adjust accordingly. I wouldn't try to convince the AIA to go to such a system in year 1, but if we could get historical data, design a system, and then test it out next year, that could be a way forward. Me and my team could do the work for free.

Here is my question: Is this something coaches would get behind? Woo, at the high school level, do I need to talk to? Who needs to be on board and champion this politically? Obviously Dean Visser is key but what/who would it take to open up the conversation?

I would love to hear what people think.

Brett
Check out rankwrestlers, they already have the algorithms with data pulled from track and they're pretty accurate.
 

Hawestriker

Member
I'd love to see a two division system for state. Just combine D1/2 and D3/4. Make it a 32 man bracket. Keep the same 8 sections and seed 1-8 with the section champs. Top 8 medal.

This way we still have 16 state placers at each weight, cut down from 24. Winning state and placing would mean more and we wouldn't be cutting it to the extreme of a one division state championship.

Logistically speaking hardly anything changes and we make the competition a little tougher for our boys...
 
I'd love to see a two division system for state. Just combine D1/2 and D3/4. Make it a 32 man bracket. Keep the same 8 sections and seed 1-8 with the section champs. Top 8 medal.

This way we still have 16 state placers at each weight, cut down from 24. Winning state and placing would mean more and we wouldn't be cutting it to the extreme of a one division state championship.

Logistically speaking hardly anything changes and we make the competition a little tougher for our boys...

Very reasonable...all of it depends on the AIA. Football I believe has 6 divisions, so with wrestling having only 4, they have at least shown the capacity to be willing to change.

AZ wrestling has grown immensely over the last 15 years, and at least the days of 5A1, 5A2, 4A1, etc. are over. The quality and depth of the field have improved and a large part of that is due to the emergence of some amazing youth programs like Thorobred, Cyclones, Olympus, Grindhouse, East Valley WC, Sunnyside, etc...

I see immediate room for improvement in that there could be more emphasis placed at the youth level, specifically in terms of providing competition opportunities for beginners, similar to what we do at the high school for Frosh and JV. Overall, I’d say that AZ-USAW could also improve as a whole...I’m of the opinion that what the AIA provides to HS wrestlers is better than what AZ-USAW provides K-8 wrestlers. Keeping participation numbers up and ensuring kids stay with the sport should always be a priority; from what I’ve heard from several refs and admin, we are seeing a pretty significant decrease in participation statewide
 
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