Coach Question

Discussion in 'Wrestling Talk - HS' started by BDBlue, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. BDBlue

    BDBlue Well-Known Member

    Who's the better Coach...

    The Coach that wins with a team of "Recruited" Transfers (I use parenthesis with recruited because I know how we all try and keep that on the hush and attempt to justify) OR the coach that uses neighborhood kids and developed them from the ground up and wins?

    I ask because I was having a debate with one of my coworkers regarding a Old Coach at a certain school and how he won, versus a new coach now at the same school who is also winning. They think the new coach is better because he is winning with transferred in and possibly dare I say "recruited" talent and I argue that the old coach is better because of his sustained success with developed neighborhood talent.

    Just wanted to pose the question to the masses and see their opinions. Not trying to rile anything up :) or anything! The boards have been much to quiet lately!
  2. David Shuler

    David Shuler Member

    I would go as far as to say it takes a certain coaching style to do either or and be successful. Just because you are successful in one area doesn't always guarantee that it will translate to the other.

    Take the NY Yankees for example. Consistently bring in top talent and aren't always in the world series. Competitive and always near the top, sure, but always winning the crown, no. Talent only gets you so far, being able to manage egos and keeping talented players at the top of their game is a coaching skill that not everyone has.

    On the flip side, look at the Houston Astros, they get a couple of studs coming in every year, but mostly built from a good farm system and making good players better and always a threat, and winning.
  3. cougar

    cougar Well-Known Member

    I am not going to comment on a high school program, either here in Arizona or anywhere else, and there are certainly alot of really good coaches, in my opinion, in Arizona and they have different styles, methods, etc. But, high school is so different to the pros and, while I completely understand what you're saying David, I think its a little bit of comparing apples to oranges.

    We definitely have to manage egos, whether its a kid who transfers in or a home grown kid. And I have seen a number of kids, including kids I've coached, who have had little to no experience in wrestling before high school and have been extremely successful. I think Shawn Charles is a perfect example of that. But, the pros already all have the skill sets that make them professional. The worst pro baseball player is probably better than any high school athlete, at this moment in their life, in the country. I think it says a lot about a coach in high school who can take a divers group of kids and create something special, turn them into a team, and produce champions and championships...and, even more importantly, be an influence that will turn them into productive human beings. Because, after all, this is really what its about, right? Helping kids realize they can be extraordinary and great and successful and that they can give back to their family and community and all of those things.

    Getting an awesome transfer in can be like Christmas come early in our sport and level. Getting! Definitely still have to coach them up though.

    Just my thoughts
    Levi likes this.
  4. FamousLie

    FamousLie Well-Known Member

    I think the sign of a good coach is not what he can do with the stud wrestler who people know and expect to be good, but what he can do with the guys who aren't supposed to be. It's really about how you develop talent, versus how you manage it. If a team has 2 or 3 guys on their roster who place or are in the finals at every tournament, but the other 8-11 guys in the lineup are going 0-2 or mostly losing, that kind of says something. Maybe there's factors we on the outside don't know about. But if maybe you don't have that guy who is in the finals at every tournament but you have 8-9 guys finishing 3-6 and giving people a tough out, that really shows what kind of coaching level you're at.
    cougar likes this.
  5. AZ_wrestlinFan#1

    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 Well-Known Member

    Is the old coach winning titles at his new school? That would be another way to tell.
  6. Billy Bob

    Billy Bob New Member

    What a GREAT response. It seems that the coach who had all of this success at a "certain" program has had very minimal success at his present school, which he's been at for years now and hasn't been able to turn around. It seems to be that BDBlue is some "ex" parent or wrestler at a "certain program" and insists on hating on a "certain program" and coach. He claims to be a big part of a "certain program" and a very good friend of a "certain family" (Bravo), but then insists on hating on RBY and calling him a "wonder boy"?! This guy is a JOKE! Get over it, your time is GONE! You're now irrelevant in this "certain program". BoooooHoooooo!!!

    Coach P likes this.
  7. BDBlue

    BDBlue Well-Known Member

    I find it interesting that you find offense in my questions! Just an observation.

    I never called RBY a "Wonder Boy," in fact I praised him and always have, the boy is very skilled, which I pointed out before. I only stated that in my opinion He is not the best 4xer to come from SS nor is he the best ever to come from SS, I've even said that he may be the best from his family but his father was absolutely AMAZING so even then I am not sure (But i seriously doubt you, Billy Bob, have ever watched Romego Young. Its just one old mans opinion, it doesn't discredit the boy and all that he has done. Me and RBY have a great relationship, hell his family and I have a great relationship. So there is no shade there at all.

    I'm not hating on the program in which I am merely a building block in the history of, I am however not happy with the current structure in which they fill the line-up. Nor am i impressed with how their coach cannot and refuses to develop talent from the grassroots as the previous coach, which can be clearly seen as the kids aren't allowed in the room adn have to train at an off site location. Let's just call a spade a spade, the man has brought in a number of transfers and continues to do so, whether it be from other schools across the state and/or city or now from other countries (which i suppose is a gray area with the current rules). But I do know that respect has been lost for the program but those that have coached it and built it. However, I suppose the saying, "There's more than one way to skin a cat," is fitting.

    Regardless, the best of luck to him and his new and dare i say "improved" methods and Blue Devils! Winning is winning a suppose! May the tradition that is SS Wrestling continue for generations to come!!!
  8. BDBlue

    BDBlue Well-Known Member

    Is success measured by the titles you win OR by the number of individuals you have developed to be good or dare i say great? Regardless, I think the both of can agree that the goal is to develop individuals to be good people and help them to continue their education and create opportunities for themselves and apply the skills learned.
  9. AZ_wrestlinFan#1

    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 Well-Known Member

    Ok. Is the old coach at his new school sending his kids to college? Is the new coach sending his kids to college?
  10. 41247

    41247 New Member

    I learned everything that I needed to know about that program at Flowing Wells last year. The behavior of both the wrestlers and coaches was appalling. The “old coach” would have never tolerated those shenanigans. I have nothing but respect for the “old coach”.....can’t say the same for the newer one.
    BDBlue likes this.
  11. BDBlue

    BDBlue Well-Known Member

    Interesting... A coach once told me... It's not better or worse, It's just different! I;m not sure if that applies here but your observations are quite interesting! Again best of luck to the "newer" coach and his new and improved Blue Devils!
  12. Billy Bob

    Billy Bob New Member

    The main issue with you and your "observations" are that you claim to be a supportive Blue Devil, wishing them the best and so fourth. That said, all you want to do is throw jabs at the new coach and wrestlers and their all around "methods". And for your information, or lack thereof on your behalf, I did watch Romego wrestle, multiple times. I too was around and am very familiar with the "Old Coach" and all of his "methods", good and bad. And trust me, you would be very surprised of your heroic coach who obviously did no wrong in your eyes, as it seems that all you know is "good" and absolutely no bad of this coach. If you think that the new coach brings in transfers to his team, you must of obviously had a "brain fart" over the course of more than a decade and "accidentally" forgot that some of the old coaches top talent was from out of district; talent that include's many state champions, high school All Americans, Collegiate All Americans and National Champions, and dare I say a Hodge Trophy Winner?! OH MY! Do your research, Mr. Intellect and professional "observer". Many of these National Level Wrestlers were originally from out of district. How quickly we forget. I have been lucky to see how both of these 2 different coaches have grown their teams, it's never perfect and both have their own different styles. As a matter of fact, it's sad, and quite frankly embarrassing to see how you just love to hate and throw jabs left and right at the team that you supposedly love and support so match. We know that there are many just like you, but mainly from the old staff that just can't get passed this and continue to live vicariously through what the "NEW and IMPROVED" devils are now accomplishing. Even more-so, it's sad and embarrassing that two Blue Devil supporters have to go back and fourth about the same team on this platform. However, I can say that I too support our Blue Devils and trust me when I say, old coach or new coach, THE BEST IS YET TO COME. Get over it.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 likes this.
  13. bayoubadger

    bayoubadger Well-Known Member

    Man, this post has brought me out of retirement. I certainly do not have the long history with Blue Devil Wrestling as some of the other people that have been posting. That being said I know a thing or two about wrestling. From what I know of the "old coach" he is a good man and did what worked during his time at the school. The "new" coach is doing what works now. As a coach you have to evolve. The sport of wrestling has changed immensely over the past 35 years that I have been around it. Just look at scrambling for instance, it was basically an afterthought when I was in high school in the midwest. Now it is the focus of some programs and systems. How the "old" coach is doing at his new school does is not an indictment of his coaching ability, it is proof that the youth system that feeds Blue Devil Wrestling works. Usually, when a school dominates in any sport for 40 years it is because they have had the same coach for 40 years. Seldom does that dominance get spread over 4 different coaches. So if it's not the coaches, it's gotta be the kids and parents. Start them young, keep them in the room and off the streets. That is what breeds the success of Blue Devil Wrestling.
    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 likes this.
  14. AZ_wrestlinFan#1

    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 Well-Known Member

    If you go down to the LETS TALK TRANSFERS you called RBY “Boy Wonder”. So you are correct when you said you never called him a “Wonder Boy”
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  15. AZ_wrestlinFan#1

    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 Well-Known Member

    Some of the talent that “Old Coach” had that was from out of the district was Hector Daza (San Manuel), Matt Lopez (Safford), Rene Torres (Cholla), Gallick’s (Foothills), James Terry (CDO), Cedric Gonzalez (Sahuarita)... that’s just off the top of my head.
  16. AZ_wrestlinFan#1

    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 Well-Known Member

    You must not have been at Sunnyside, Cibola and Safford dual back in ‘09 when a Sunnyside wrestler challenged Pepe Moreno (HC at Cibola) to a fight during the match, prompting Coach Moreno forfeit the rest of the dual. What did “old coach” do about these shenanigans? Nothing!
  17. BDBlue

    BDBlue Well-Known Member

    Hector Daza, Rene Torres, Nate Gallick, and Jame's Terry were all never ACTIVELY RECRUITED! They cam on their own volition... I;m sure the "Old Coach" had no hand in that. Regardless his teams still won with 95-99% HOME GROWN, SOUTHSIDE BRED KIDS FROM THH NEIGHBORHOOD! You can reference Nick Gallick or Cedrick Gonzalez as they never set foot at another school since 7th Grade. They can attest to that as they went to SS their whole HS Careers and had be training at SS as kids.
  18. BDBlue

    BDBlue Well-Known Member

    A One-Off type of situation does attest for the overall opinion of the team. However, the shenanigans were in fact handled. I can assure you that! The kid even had to apologize to the opposing coach, and if I'm not mistaken the captain of the team apologized too despite having no fault in the matter. But I;m sure you know more on the matter than I do, and will continue to discredit anything coming from anyone else because it didn't come from you first!
  19. AZ_wrestlinFan#1

    AZ_wrestlinFan#1 Well-Known Member

    And that is what “New Coach” has now with Sunnyside Wrestling Academy. Nate Gallick went to Foothills his freshman year btw.
  20. BDBlue

    BDBlue Well-Known Member

    I'll stand corrected on nicknaming him Boy Wonder, I probably did do that! Even I can admit my mistakes... Regardless everything I said was true and all points made are true as well. So sue me for making a small error, doesn't diminish everything else stated! :)

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