Peoria Results???

TUMBLEWEED

Well-Known Member
The state has improved talent wise, but not substantially. My point is that S.S. has weakened substantially. Hopefully they get some of these kids back in the lineup soon.


The state has not substantially improved??
Overall ??
Really?

Research how many National champions Az has produced in the last 5 years VS. the last 20 years. In the USAW circuit. School boy to Jr level.
Now check out how many all Americans.
Then look at how the national teams have placed over the last 5 years.
Then look at how many of our kids have moved on to colleges to wrestle.
I would bet that the state has done better, in most of these areas, over the last 5 years versus the previous 20 combined

Pretty substantial to me

As far as your "point" being that sunny side has weakened, yeah maybe.
it makes it hard when the pools are tilted in favor of the Phoenix area teams.

Let me ask this.
Do all of the CDS transfers live in the schools attendance map? Or because Larkin quit were they all given a free pass to go where ever they want?

If it weren't for Mesa getting some substantial (i like that word) transfers and now Corona getting some, Sunnyside would have a few more titles under their belt.
 

East Valley

Well-Known Member
The state has not substantially improved??
Overall ??
Really?

Research how many National champions Az has produced in the last 5 years VS. the last 20 years. In the USAW circuit. School boy to Jr level.
Now check out how many all Americans.
Then look at how the national teams have placed over the last 5 years.
Then look at how many of our kids have moved on to colleges to wrestle.
I would bet that the state has done better, in most of these areas, over the last 5 years versus the previous 20 combined

Pretty substantial to me

As far as your "point" being that sunny side has weakened, yeah maybe.
it makes it hard when the pools are tilted in favor of the Phoenix area teams.

Let me ask this.
Do all of the CDS transfers live in the schools attendance map? Or because Larkin quit were they all given a free pass to go where ever they want?

If it weren't for Mesa getting some substantial (i like that word) transfers and now Corona getting some, Sunnyside would have a few more titles under their belt.
I agree with you on the first part about Arizona getting better! I think that is obvious.

Let me say at the beginning of the year I picked SS to win it. (I do however believe Corona has the firepower to do it as well) But why does SS have to be getting weaker just because other teams beat them? SS is a solid strong program that has major tradition. There are other good schools in Tucson too. D1 is also a grind. Sure there may be a bias in seeding in PHX many feel there is in Tucson as well. Home cooking isn't new. You fight through it.

The transfer argument is getting really old! The rules are the problem. If you think no one ever transferred to SS or every kid that's gone there lives in the boundaries then I think you are naive. The school you are talking about is Mesa Mtn View not Mesa. (That's a big difference up here) Yes they & many other schools got transfers. If SS had stayed in D2 they would have more titles too. Arguing that SS was cheated out of titles is lame. Did you forget Chandler & Ironwood Ridge also beat SS since they came up to D1.

In my OPINION Mt View was the best team last year. Guess what mean old Ironwood Ridge didn't care what anyone thought. They got it done! That's it. SS knocked them out of 2nd. All the teams that win are missing kids & have injuries. Who cares. You get it done with who you have. I love that Corona is making it interesting. Who ever wins it deserves it! No one needs to make excuses especially not for SS who has a lot of heart & pride! Flowing Wells will be awesome to watch!
 

East Valley

Well-Known Member
Sunnyside now has Vicente Loaiza (Runner up St Champ) and Joey Hernandez (3rd at State) back in the line up for Flowing Wells. This should make things very interesting leading up to state. Flowing Wells is going to be GOOD!!!!
Yes those two bring a lot of fire power! FW will be a blast to watch!
 

wjd

Well-Known Member
Will Chandler and Cibola be at Flowing Wells? If so, it will be interesting t see how the top of 6A shakes out.
 
Well said

CDS wins Flowing Wells beating Sunnyside. Great job CDS. I read where someone said that the Seton kids got a free pass. If you think it's a free pass to have to move schools in your senior year, have to sit out a half a year and then adjust yourself for that new school is a "free pass" you must not remember high school. Those kids moved, adjusted and have"geled" with the the rest of that team, the coaches and the school population. In spite of all the hurdles they have kept their wrestling skills top notch through it all. Sunnyside has a great wrestling history and should not have to explain themselves. CDS had stepped it up and if you can't give all of them some credit then that is an issue you need to deal with. It should be a great State Tournament, good luck to all the wrestlers.
 

bayoubadger

Well-Known Member
Transfers are just part of the game. If my kid was at Seaton when Larkin left I would look for the best situation for them, if wrestling is that important to him. Thats why when we moved to Tucson from WI when my kid was starting high school I stuck him in SS. CDS was the best situation for them, can't fault them for wanting to win. State should be a blast!
 

bayoubadger

Well-Known Member
Those transfers scored a lot of team points, some close matches in the finals could of gone either way, i wouldn't count ss out just yet, it's gonna be fun at state!
Don't get me wrong. It is going to be a blast because SS is going to be at full strength and be able take care of business. Thanks to the transfers at CDS it will actually be close, otherwise it would have been a runaway.
 

bayoubadger

Well-Known Member
Seems to be a trend that teams are stacking themselves however necessary to beat ss or win state title, the only team to win it was ironwood without any significant transfers, imo
Without Josiah Klien, Ironwood Ridge would not have won the State Title. He moved in from MO. Don't know if he lived in the attendance area or not.
 

East Valley

Well-Known Member
Seems to be a trend that teams are stacking themselves however necessary to beat ss or win state title, the only team to win it was ironwood without any significant transfers, imo
Really?? The world is out to get SS. Really?? Come on. They kick the crap out of everyone for years!!! Now they are picked on because other schools do well. Pretty weak argument. SS never gets transfers?? Really?

Look the kids from SS & Corona fought their hearts out! The State title hasn't been decided yet. Give Corona credit. They did gel (Sorry I ever said that haha) together as a team. It is hard to make that work. It's within the rules and EVERY school takes transfers. People forget Corona had studs in their lineup (A few years back) & a bunch transferred. (Cartegena, Barker to name a few) Hurting their Championship hopes. This happens. Teams are building themselves.

State will be a dogfight! Cibola & some other teams will also make it interesting. Whoever it is will find a way to win. SS still looks strong. Corona just made it a lot more interesting!!
 
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East Valley

Well-Known Member
Maybe your right, That's one kid coming from out of state, smart kid choosing a good academic school, I don't know where he lived either but it's different than mesa and know cds situation, however Sunnyside will always be the team to beat for a reason, they are good!
Different than Mesa (That's Mesa Mtn View btw you don't even know the right school) & CDS? You don't know the first thing about it!!! You weren't there. I know a lot about both programs & you don't know the half of it!
 

TUMBLEWEED

Well-Known Member
Speaking of "MESA" Mtn. View..

How are they doing with their new coach and the "B" team that did so well at the
Black ford duals last year??

Pretty sure I remember they were up there on the pre season team rankings.

From what I see, looks like they haven't had much sucsess without Callison and all of his transfers.

Not that Casteel is doing much better..
 

East Valley

Well-Known Member
Speaking of "MESA" Mtn. View..

How are they doing with their new coach and the "B" team that did so well at the
Black ford duals last year??

Pretty sure I remember they were up there on the pre season team rankings.

From what I see, looks like they haven't had much sucsess without Callison and all of his transfers.

Not that Casteel is doing much better..
Now Tumbleweed what exactly are you talking about? What exactly do you see? (As you put it) No one picked Mesa Mtn View to win it this year. On early projected rankings they were 3rd behind SS & Cibola. (Based on what they had coming back) When the kids went to Corona then they were projected 4th or 5th in D1.

Mesa Mtn View finished 6th at FW. Behind Corona, SS, Queen Creek, Cleveland & Mtn View Marana. That would be 3rd best for D1 teams. Many feel that Queen Creek & Mtn View Marana are two of the top teams in D2 (Me included, both have transfers but had great teams first) & Cleveland is the favorite to win it in its divison in NM.

Mesa Mtn View placed 6th at the Sierra Nevada Classic. The only dual they have lost this year is to Rancho Bernardo a good California team. They are undefeated in AZ duals so far. I'm sure many teams would take that "haven't had much success" (As you put it Tumbleweed) in a transition year. Coach Anderson took over this summer. He hasn't even had a year with the team. You might want to give him a year to make this team his own. He's doing a great job.

Callison took over a brand new school with a team that only has a sophomore & freshman class. No Juniors or Seniors. He's doing well with what he has. Casteels Jr high team is really good! They have been beating a lot of good teams. Casteel is on track.

The thing people don't understand is you don't win a championship with just transfers. You have to have the supporting cast in place or it won't work. (& they have to gel, Corona parents have been giving me crap about saying that for months haha) Corona had a really good team coming back this year. Mesa Mtn View had a good team in place before transfers came in. In 2013 (Before the Taylors) Mesa Mtn View placed 2nd at FW (Without Seth Monty, hurt) behind SS. Their #1 ranked HWT got hurt right before state & they didn't wrestle well. SS won it, Chandler made some gutsy moves & took 2nd & Corona 3rd & Mesa Mtn View took 4th. Last year Mesa Mtn View only had one transfer. (SS had a few & so did IR) They were in the mix all year. Ironwood Ridge had a good team before Klein came. He was an important part of the puzzle. (& they lost Castillo) SS had a good team before Tellez, Mordecai, Laguna & Hernandez transferred in.

So what exactly do you see?
 
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TUMBLEWEED

Well-Known Member
Now Tumbleweed what exactly are you talking about? What exactly do you see? (As you put it) No one picked Mesa Mtn View to win it this year. On early projected rankings they were 3rd behind SS & Cibola. (Based on what they had coming back) When the kids went to Corona then they were projected 4th or 5th in D1.

Mesa Mtn View finished 6th at FW. Behind Corona, SS, Queen Creek, Cleveland & Mtn View Marana. That would be 3rd best for D1 teams. Many feel that Queen Creek & Mtn View Marana are two of the top teams in D2 (Me included, both have transfers but had great teams first) & Cleveland is the favorite to win it in its divison in NM.

Mesa Mtn View placed 6th at the Sierra Nevada Classic. The only dual they have lost this year is to Rancho Bernardo a good California team. They are undefeated in AZ duals so far. I'm sure many teams would take that "haven't had much success" (As you put it Tumbleweed) in a transition year. Coach Anderson took over this summer. He hasn't even had a year with the team. You might want to give him a year to make this team his own. He's doing a great job.

Callison took over a brand new school with a team that only has a sophomore & freshman class. No Juniors or Seniors. He's doing well with what he has. Casteels Jr high team is really good! They have been beating a lot of good teams. Casteel is on track.

The thing people don't understand is you don't win a championship with just transfers. You have to have the supporting cast in place or it won't work. (& they have to gel, Corona parents have been giving me crap about saying that for months haha) Corona had a really good team coming back this year. Mesa Mtn View had a great team in place before transfers came in. In 2013 (Before the Taylors) Mesa Mtn View placed 2nd at FW (Without Seth Monty, hurt) behind SS. Their #1 ranked HWT got hurt right before state & they didn't wrestle well. SS won it, Chandler made some gutsy moves & took 2nd & Corona 3rd & Mesa Mtn View took 4th. Last year Mesa Mtn View only had one transfer. (SS had a few & so did IR) They were in the mix all year. Ironwood Ridge had a good team before Klein came. He was an important part of the puzzle. (& they lost Castillo)

So what exactly do you see?

You are right. It was before Seton / Corona transfers that you were predicting MMV to be contenders.
I thought it was funny that you were so concerned that someone might mistake "Mesa mountain view" for "Mesa". Wanted to get your feathers ruffled, I knew that my comment would do it.

You are absolutely right about the need of a supporting cast. That includes the Comunity and support from the AD of the school.

Good luck to coach Anderson and Callison on building there new teams. I am sure there teams will be in the discussion no matter where they are coaching.
 
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