Valient vs Real AZ Allstars

[Coach P]

Just for fun....well for some at least, lol. I will need help with this...but here goes.
AZ Allstars vs Valient
106 Ramos (Val) over Billups (Coco)
113 Espanlin (Chandler) over Larkin (Val)
120 Avelar (CC) over ??? Valient
126 Ybarra (SS)/Tellez (Cie) over Ramos (Val) Close one here...
132 Castillo (MMV) over Alanis (Val) (although Alanis looked huge)
138 Jarmen (Mesa) over ???(Val)
145 Martinez (DV) over Nickal (Val)
152 Enchemendia (SS) over anyone (Val)
160 Mlines (Val) over Cole (QC)
170 Mendoza (Val) over Rock (CV)
182 Carey (Bas) over ??? (Val)
195 Hollen (MVM) over anyone (Val)
220 Sutkovic (Ironwood) over Moussa (Val)
285 Johnson (DV) over ??? (Val)

Valiant only wins 3 or 4 matches....hmmm.

Thoughts?

 

[tarcon157]

That would be a great dual. I was a the tournament and yes Alanis looked big and he is tough as nails but i still think he may have been a 132lber for the high school season. Milnes at 160 I question if he would have been there for a complete high school season but possible, he looked a weight class bigger than Cole. that was a good match until it looked like Cole took a hard hit to the head and may have rung his bell. But that being said Milnes is super tough. Mendoza no way he makes 170 or 172, 176 looked like it may have been a cut for him. He looked 2 weight classes bigger than Rock. And really other than the last 10 sec where size was a factor I thought Rock out wrestled him. Valiant has some tough kids in their program and those guys do a great job with them. Id say advertise sooner so more people know. Don't call people out try to invite them instead. And be honest with where your kid would have been for a complete high school season or just stay with the 2lb growth allowance. Other than that i hope it grown and the best kids want to come participate!

 

[blackbaby]

That would be a great dual. I was a the tournament and yes Alanis looked big and he is tough as nails but i still think he may have been a 132lber for the high school season. Milnes at 160 I question if he would have been there for a complete high school season but possible, he looked a weight class bigger than Cole. that was a good match until it looked like Cole took a hard hit to the head and may have rung his bell. But that being said Milnes is super tough. Mendoza no way he makes 170 or 172, 176 looked like it may have been a cut for him. He looked 2 weight classes bigger than Rock. And really other than the last 10 sec where size was a factor I thought Rock out wrestled him. Valiant has some tough kids in their program and those guys do a great job with them. Id say advertise sooner so more people know. Don't call people out try to invite them instead. And be honest with where your kid would have been for a complete high school season or just stay with the 2lb growth allowance. Other than that i hope it grown and the best kids want to come participate!

I can't believe wrestling so called experts in arizona, you leave people off the list of top wrestlers because you never seen them wrestle or that they have one loss and didn't attend this event, I can hardly believe it. First of all Andrews signed up and I KNOW EVERYONE IN THE STATE WANT TO WRESTLE HIM, but no one else signed up to do so, who was he going to wrestle. Robert White has beaten Rock 3 times to one but he isn't good enough to be mentioned , Mckade Finch wrestled who ever was in his weight class won Flowing Wells and he's not mentioned , If you experts know wrestling please tell me who has beaten Dawon Andrews in Arizona since his soph year, that includes national qualifiers in arizona.

 

[Coach P]

Oh, how could I forget Finch...my bad....Finch at 138 for AZ allstars. And White should have been at 170 (not Rock). No disrespect to Andrews, but 152 is Enchemendia's, but not by alot. Either of those guys would dominate anyone else.

 

[tarcon157]

Was going to say "I'll let Coach P defend his picks." But mine was based off who he had in his post. Andrews signed up to get his rematch with Enchemendia's and didnt get it. White had a chance to show up last Saturday for the rematch. Rock went up weight classes twice to wrestle him and it went 1-1, both matches ending in a fall. Rock was winning the first match and got chin whipped. And was in total control in the state finals. I say good for Andrews in signing up....to bad no one else did at that weight. And good for Rock knowing the tougher weight at state was 170 and going up to the challenge.....these things make everyone better.

 

[chingon76]

I can't believe wrestling so called experts in arizona, you leave people off the list of top wrestlers because you never seen them wrestle or that they have one loss and didn't attend this event, I can hardly believe it. First of all Andrews signed up and I KNOW EVERYONE IN THE STATE WANT TO WRESTLE HIM, but no one else signed up to do so, who was he going to wrestle. Robert White has beaten Rock 3 times to one but he isn't good enough to be mentioned , Mckade Finch wrestled who ever was in his weight class won Flowing Wells and he's not mentioned , If you experts know wrestling please tell me who has beaten Dawon Andrews in Arizona since his soph year, that includes national qualifiers in arizona.

what did safford do to make everyone hate so hard? Every time I see Safford wrestling... it is hard nosed grind and hard work wrestling. Dawon is smooth, fast, and tough. Safford has earned and deserves great respect. The kids don't switch schools or try to find their place in other rooms because they don't like the way things are going. They buy into a program and clearly become bulldogs (safford mascot).

 

[blackbaby]

what did safford do to make everyone hate so hard? Every time I see Safford wrestling... it is hard nosed grind and hard work wrestling. Dawon is smooth, fast, and tough. Safford has earned and deserves great respect. The kids don't switch schools or try to find their place in other rooms because they don't like the way things are going. They buy into a program and clearly become bulldogs (safford mascot).

Thank you, we just have little small town wrestlers that work their butt off we go by all the AIA rules , we loose wrestlers to other schools Thatcher,Sunnyside, Mesa Mountain View, just to name a few.But we still have a good program thanks to our hard working coaches and our outstanding parents that work with us.

 

[Toughontop]

Was going to say "I'll let Coach P defend his picks." But mine was based off who he had in his post. Andrews signed up to get his rematch with Enchemendia's and didnt get it. White had a chance to show up last Saturday for the rematch. Rock went up weight classes twice to wrestle him and it went 1-1, both matches ending in a fall. Rock was winning the first match and got chin whipped. And was in total control in the state finals. I say good for Andrews in signing up....to bad no one else did at that weight. And good for Rock knowing the tougher weight at state was 170 and going up to the challenge.....these things make everyone better.

Agree all kids mentioned are great kids.

The talk of Andrews signing up and what I am perceiving as Echemendia not. Or a question as to why Echemendia would be the best 152.

Here are the facts:
1. Echemendia has a total of 25 or so folk style matches in his career. He learned the folk style sport this season. He beat 3x state champ Fernandez, he beat 4x state champ Andrews. I have learned in my time that you either get it done or you train harder and look for another opportunity. But until you knock off the guy that put it to you keep the talk to yourself. The guys he beat have been wrestling folk style since they were young kids, they have been well coached, have put in their time. With that said it was still not enough. And got those that cry over spilled milk, he is of the same age as many competitors in the AZ HS system. He is 19, well within the age requirement. So quit your trash talk, and get to working, because freestyle/Greco season is upon us and I’m sure he will be ready to put it on the line.

 

[blackbaby]

Agree all kids mentioned are great kids.

The talk of Andrews signing up and what I am perceiving as Echemendia not. Or a question as to why Echemendia would be the best 152.

Here are the facts:
1. Echemendia has a total of 25 or so folk style matches in his career. He learned the folk style sport this season. He beat 3x state champ Fernandez, he beat 4x state champ Andrews. I have learned in my time that you either get it done or you train harder and look for another opportunity. But until you knock off the guy that put it to you keep the talk to yourself. The guys he beat have been wrestling folk style since they were young kids, they have been well coached, have put in their time. With that said it was still not enough. And got those that cry over spilled milk, he is of the same age as many competitors in the AZ HS system. He is 19, well within the age requirement. So quit your trash talk, and get to working, because freestyle/Greco season is upon us and I’m sure he will be ready to put it on the line.

You know you won't here from me on this subject again ,Bravo was the best wrestler to ever come out of Sunnyside trained by his grandfather who is a great coach and he never had to bragg he done his work on the matt. Now we have a young man that came over from Cuba national high school team and all we here is how great he is, the people that's doing all the talking shouldn't try to take credit for someone that they didn't have anything to do with his outstanding ability. I know Bravo will have this young man ready to move on to the next level because old school coaches know how its done. I would like to wish all arizona wrestlers good luck at nationals I'm always proud of all of you.

 

[Bullybulldog]

Was going to say "I'll let Coach P defend his picks." But mine was based off who he had in his post. Andrews signed up to get his rematch with Enchemendia's and didnt get it. White had a chance to show up last Saturday for the rematch. Rock went up weight classes twice to wrestle him and it went 1-1, both matches ending in a fall. Rock was winning the first match and got chin whipped. And was in total control in the state finals. I say good for Andrews in signing up....to bad no one else did at that weight. And good for Rock knowing the tougher weight at state was 170 and going up to the challenge.....these things make everyone better.

What made 170 a harder weight class? 160 had just as many talented wrestlers.

 

[David Jarman]

I don't want to disrespect Finch and obviously I have a bias but Finch and Steven Jarman never met this year but they have a common opponent in Cody Foote from Red Mountain and Steven went 2-0 against him where Finch 0-1. I certainly respect Finch as a wrestler and his credentials. You definitely have to pick one of these two in the field at 138. But this argument is why we want this one true champ tournament. 4 State champs is nice and nothing should take away from that accomplishment. I am hopeful that this tournament takes off and really becomes something.

 

[0517wrestle]

What made 170 a harder weight class? 160 had just as many talented wrestlers.

got to agree. Problem is people get stuck on 1 school or 1 wrestler and all the other talent like in the 160s or 120s get pushed to the side. Everyone has tunnel vision and never look to see what's around. 160 has great talented dedicated tough kids. But you have forums and social media sites that NEVER promote anyone else and stuck on a school that others are over looked. People need to look outside the box.

 

[ThePoniesAz]

got to agree. Problem is people get stuck on 1 school or 1 wrestler and all the other talent like in the 160s or 120s get pushed to the side. Everyone has tunnel vision and never look to see what's around. 160 has great talented dedicated tough kids. But you have forums and social media sites that NEVER promote anyone else and stuck on a school that others are over looked. People need to look outside the box.

Umm the original poster (tarcon157) is right, 170s for Rock was the tougher matchup on paper compared to him going to 160s for State. At 160s, he hadn't lost to anyone in that bracket. At 170s, Rock lost to White from Safford earlier in the season...so yeah, it was the tougher matchup and yeah, he did go up to face a challenge, considering he hadn't lost to anybody in the 160 bracket for state, but had a loss to White at 170s, which he would go on to avenge at State.

Perhaps, you have this tunnel vision you are referring to?


tarcon157 said:

"...And good for Rock knowing the tougher weight at state was 170 and going up to the challenge.....these things make everyone better".

 

[Bullybulldog]

Avenge? Strong word play.

 

[BDBlue]

You know you won't here from me on this subject again ,Bravo was the best wrestler to ever come out of Sunnyside trained by his grandfather who is a great coach and he never had to bragg he done his work on the matt. Now we have a young man that came over from Cuba national high school team and all we here is how great he is, the people that's doing all the talking shouldn't try to take credit for someone that they didn't have anything to do with his outstanding ability. I know Bravo will have this young man ready to move on to the next level because old school coaches know how its done. I would like to wish all arizona wrestlers good luck at nationals I'm always proud of all of you.

Enchemendia is okay but he isn't great. Truthfully, I think Andrews is better (despite the match) he's just a lazy wrestler. That being said you could probably switch them both however many times you want, the result would be the same. Enchemendia may wrestle in college but without the right coach, just like everybody, he will have a hard time. Plus you can definitely beat people when you are already moving into your Adult Man Strength and are the age of 20-21 years old. I'd like to know how this "boy" is the age he claims to be when he is a senior and he has an 8 year old son. This would mean that he would have had to conceive at the age of 10/11 years old which is damn near impossible.

As for RBY:

See I don't even think RBY is th ebest wrestler to ever come out of SunnySide, let alone the best 4xer or the best out of the state.
4xers from SS: 1) Gallick 2) Lopez 3) Big Debo 4) Lil Debo 5) RBY and 6) Moreno (2x at SS, 2 at Sah)
*** Lets not forget the fact that COMPETITION was much tougher before RBY's time! Not taking anything away from RBY at all, he is great and trained alot when he was younger by those mentioned before him but still, Seriously doubt he even beats Gallick who would be the only one to "evenly" (and I do use the term "Evenly" loosely) compare him to due to weight class.

As far as from SS as a whole... Let us not forget Urbano, Nunez, Ortiz, both Larkin's, Vega, both De Berry's, both Gallick's, Lopez, Both Bravo's, RBY's father Romego Young, and countless of others.

As far as from AZ in general: both Cejudo's, and those above, plus Frost, Valasquez, Gaethje, Hancock, Finch, Goettle, and others from the state.

RBY is very good however he is ONE of the many GREAT WRESTLERS to come out of AZ. It just so happens he did it without losing a match. You can end up undefeated but wrestle SUBPAR competition, doesn't mean your the best ever!

and for EVERYONE INFORMATION.... I am a SS Alumni and a past Wrestler. I love the Bravo family and have very close ties, I'm just stating FACTS.

 

[Toughontop]

Enchemendia is okay but he isn't great. Truthfully, I think Andrews is better (despite the match) he's just a lazy wrestler. That being said you could probably switch them both however many times you want, the result would be the same. Enchemendia may wrestle in college but without the right coach, just like everybody, he will have a hard time. Plus you can definitely beat people when you are already moving into your Adult Man Strength and are the age of 20-21 years old. I'd like to know how this "boy" is the age he claims to be when he is a senior and he has an 8 year old son. This would mean that he would have had to conceive at the age of 10/11 years old which is damn near impossible.

As for RBY:

See I don't even think RBY is th ebest wrestler to ever come out of SunnySide, let alone the best 4xer or the best out of the state.
4xers from SS: 1) Gallick 2) Lopez 3) Big Debo 4) Lil Debo 5) RBY and 6) Moreno (2x at SS, 2 at Sah)
*** Lets not forget the fact that COMPETITION was much tougher before RBY's time! Not taking anything away from RBY at all, he is great and trained alot when he was younger by those mentioned before him but still, Seriously doubt he even beats Gallick who would be the only one to "evenly" (and I do use the term "Evenly" loosely) compare him to due to weight class.

As far as from SS as a whole... Let us not forget Urbano, Nunez, Ortiz, both Larkin's, Vega, both De Berry's, both Gallick's, Lopez, Both Bravo's, RBY's father Romego Young, and countless of others.

As far as from AZ in general: both Cejudo's, and those above, plus Frost, Valasquez, Gaethje, Hancock, Finch, Goettle, and others from the state.

RBY is very good however he is ONE of the many GREAT WRESTLERS to come out of AZ. It just so happens he did it without losing a match. You can end up undefeated but wrestle SUBPAR competition, doesn't mean your the best ever!

and for EVERYONE INFORMATION.... I am a SS Alumni and a past Wrestler. I love the Bravo family and have very close ties, I'm just stating FACTS.

Glad to hear you are a SS alumni, and love the Bravo family, have close ties.

1. Have your facts in order. Anthony Echemendia is a 19 yo kid. He has no kids of his own. You sound like a comadre speaking out of context without facts. By the way Andrews is 19 as well I believe.

2. Of those you mention all are great, had great careers. Which of those wrestlers match up to Echemendia’s explosive takedowns? Which one of those had that wrestling skill set at the age of 19? Have you been to the SS wrestling room as of this season to see the level he has? I am sorry to say your knowledge of wrestling in general is not very high, and you don’t know much more other than local folk style wrestling. But if you educate yourself, learn about world level wrestling, etc. You will understand why people that really know about wrestling say he is the best. And people that say that are Olympic Champions, that don’t even know SS wrestling.

 

[blackbaby]

Glad to hear you are a SS alumni, and love the Bravo family, have close ties.

1. Have your facts in order. Anthony Echemendia is a 19 yo kid. He has no kids of his own. You sound like a comadre speaking out of context without facts. By the way Andrews is 19 as well I believe.

2. Of those you mention all are great, had great careers. Which of those wrestlers match up to Echemendia’s explosive takedowns? Which one of those had that wrestling skill set at the age of 19? Have you been to the SS wrestling room as of this season to see the level he has? I am sorry to say your knowledge of wrestling in general is not very high, and you don’t know much more other than local folk style wrestling. But if you educate yourself, learn about world level wrestling, etc. You will understand why people that really know about wrestling say he is the best. And people that say that are Olympic Champions, that don’t even know SS wrestling.

Just to let every know Dawon is only 18 but age has nothing to do with the loss.

 

[BDBlue]

Glad to hear you are a SS alumni, and love the Bravo family, have close ties.

1. Have your facts in order. Anthony Echemendia is a 19 yo kid. He has no kids of his own. You sound like a comadre speaking out of context without facts. By the way Andrews is 19 as well I believe.

2. Of those you mention all are great, had great careers. Which of those wrestlers match up to Echemendia’s explosive takedowns? Which one of those had that wrestling skill set at the age of 19? Have you been to the SS wrestling room as of this season to see the level he has? I am sorry to say your knowledge of wrestling in general is not very high, and you don’t know much more other than local folk style wrestling. But if you educate yourself, learn about world level wrestling, etc. You will understand why people that really know about wrestling say he is the best. And people that say that are Olympic Champions, that don’t even know SS wrestling.

Of thos mentioned ALL of those were better than Echemendia in High School. Hell we can compare at the exact same weight classes. Big Debo, Lopez, and Lil Debo all wrestled 152 at one point and ALL would have BEAT Echemendia by a minimum of a Major Decision, the only one that wouldn't have is Lil Debo and that's only because he was not a huge point scorer but he would have controlled the whole match. Echemendia is decent but thats just it, he's a decent AZ Wrestler. Not an International Powerhouse, Not a SS Powerhouse, just a normal good AZ Wrestler. Plain and Simple. But nice try dude! Again, Echemendia is good, he can wrestle, I will give him that, but based on his collective career he's just good not great. Even in Freestyle and Greco, he wouldn't beat Big Debo, Lil Debo or Lopez at the same age and weights! GUARANTEED!

 

[BDBlue]

Just to let every know Dawon is only 18 but age has nothing to do with the loss.

Your right... Age shouldn't matter, however it does make a difference to a certain extent!

 

[BDBlue]

Glad to hear you are a SS alumni, and love the Bravo family, have close ties.

1. Have your facts in order. Anthony Echemendia is a 19 yo kid. He has no kids of his own. You sound like a comadre speaking out of context without facts. By the way Andrews is 19 as well I believe.

2. Of those you mention all are great, had great careers. Which of those wrestlers match up to Echemendia’s explosive takedowns? Which one of those had that wrestling skill set at the age of 19? Have you been to the SS wrestling room as of this season to see the level he has? I am sorry to say your knowledge of wrestling in general is not very high, and you don’t know much more other than local folk style wrestling. But if you educate yourself, learn about world level wrestling, etc. You will understand why people that really know about wrestling say he is the best. And people that say that are Olympic Champions, that don’t even know SS wrestling.

Furthermore... If you DO YOUR RESEARCH you can see on his social media that he does in fact have TWO CHILDREN of his own with the eldest being about the age of 7-8 years old! But GOOD TRY! BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME!