There were two situations that took place at this Sectional by the same team. One: they forfeited a perfectly healthy wrestler in a semi final match (he won his 1st round match) and the coach's reasoning was,"we assumed what the outcome of the match would be and wanted to get him ready for his consolation match." That wrestler lost his consolation match and was left in tears. Two: Known cousins were to face each other in the finals. Apparently the one wrestler with a much better record (wrestler A) appeared to maybe have injured himself at some point in the tournament. Wrestler A has defeated his cousin (wrestler B) with relative ease in the past few weeks. The coach of wrestler B decided to forfeit his healthy wrestler in the finals, for the sake of the cousin (wrestler A) securing a high seed at the state tournament coming up. I choose to not use the wrestlers names because they are kids, not their fault, adults made these decisions. It's not difficult to figure out who I'm referring to, look it up. The decisions made in these two situations show absolutely zero class and are detrimental to the great sport of wrestling. It's beyond embarrassing that anyone would think that this particular logic is good for the sport and sends a negative message to the kids. In many states where wrestling has a deep, rich tradition and a knowledgeable fan base, these stories would be on the front page of the local sports section along with the coach being terminated/suspended. I know I am getting a little older and some things have changed over time, but I would think that it is still unacceptable to disrespect the sport of wrestling like this coach did. There are many quality people in the AZ wrestling community, hopefully you are in agreement with me on this.
Embarrassing antics at Section 4 Div 1
- Thread starter QCWC
- Start date
Mike Jarman
Well-Known Member
It was not to preserve a seed. The 2 wrestle each other pretty much every day at home. Charlie can beat John with one arm behind his back. The injury wouldn’t have change the outcome of the match in any way. They are basically brothers. If there was a article about this, it would be commending the coach for looking beyond the wrestling and doing the right thing.
Not sure why you think it is necessary to try to insult me by calling me an idiot? I'm entitled to my own opinion and I think both moves were cowardly. What's idiotic is the fact that you are trying to convince me that it wasn't for seeding purposes. "doing the right thing?" What was the right thing? Oh, you mean forfeiting a healthy wrestler in the final, so his cousin gets a seed at state tournament, got it. That sir is laughable. I don't have a wrestler involved in that particular weight, just my observation. I think both boys in that weight are talented wrestlers and will do well. We can agree to disagree, that is what adults do.
Mike Jarman
Well-Known Member
I Apologize for the insult. Knee jerk reaction. What I explained was that Charlie would have no problem winning the match no matter how injured he was. I don’t know the reason for sure why John was held out of the match as I didn’t actually speak to the coach about it but I assume the reason was that he new Charlie was hurt and that John had no chance of winning the match anyway so why cause him further injury. Again this is my speculation. I’m also not saying that I would have made the same choice and clearly you wouldn’t have. Either way I think the coach was trying to do the sportsman like thing. If it was a mistake it definitely was not cowardly. Who was the coward here? Coach held his wrestler out when the other guys was injured. How is that cowardly. As far as the other match with the kid being held out in the championship round, the kid has a broken rib and could only handle so much mat time. The kid is to be commended for pushing through the pain and wrestling at all. Again I didn’t talk to the coach about it but I speculate he was held out strategically knowing he could not handle so much with the broken rib.
We see it a lot in the Sectional Finals. Wrestlers forfeit final matches? Who the h#!l cares. It all comes out at State. Doesn't matter! It is all by the rules QCWC!! Why write a paragraph questioning why your wrestler got the short end? It's called positioning, going in with certain wins, records, again it's a positioning game! Wakeup man 2019!
I'm sure we can go back and forth. You seem pretty convinced that there was nothing wrong with those "moves." That is your opinion. Nothing sportsmanlike about forfeiting a healthy wrestler, nothing. I'm sure lots of coaches forfeit matches if they feel their opponent is banged up and do not want to risk further injury to them, makes sense. Again, agree to disagree. Best of luck this weekend
You see a wrestler forfeit in the final of state qualifier if he is injured and has already qualified. A healthy wrestler has zero reason to forfeit, unless they are trying to protect a seed/manipulate the bracket, which is the puss thing to do. Pretty sure I said I have no wrestlers involved in either scenario. When you say positioning, going in with certain wins and records, it sounds like you agree with ducking people so that you don't accrue many losses. To me that sounds like a lot of "not getting any better.' I must have missed the " 2019 Positioning game" special on FLO. I'll see if I can find that, right after I figure out which matches my kids are going to forfeit at state, so they can be in the best position to place.
Sorry you still don't get it. Yes they duck and they pass on matches that they think they don't want to wrestle twice or three times in one year because "AGAIN" like I said before it will ultimately happen in the state final. Don't assume that I agree because that makes an "well I think you get it by now," Maybe not! And using the pu#$ word well that is your opinion. It is within the rules. So good luck at State.
I get it, believe me, I get it. Best of luck this weekend
az_wrestler
Well-Known Member
There were a few FF or injuries through out Sectionals at every Division...It Happens at the college level too. Part of wrestling, just like waiting, injury time to rest and stalling to win...don't have to like it just know its part of the sport.
Mike Jarman
Well-Known Member
Ducking is the complete opposite of what happened here. Why would a coach hold his own guy out to preserve the seed of a guy from a different team? That is not ducking. Ducking is when you forfeit to preserve the seed of your wrestler. This coach actually forfeited the chance for his wreslter to be seaded in a play of good sportmsanship. Mesa never ducks anyone.
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I love that mindset. It is exactly the way I was coached. Wrestle the best to be the best. Ducking and forfeits: I’ve seen this behavior pre-section to “pad records”... I will always feel it’s places winning over sportsmanship.
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I'm sure there were a few FF's at sectionals across the state. FF's to preserve an injured wrestler, hopefully very few, if any at all, to manipulate the state bracket. I would be surprised if there there were any FF's of healthy wrestlers. The boy with the alleged broken rib, was crying and voicing his frustration after his last match because he didn't understand why his coach had him FF to one wrestler, then go out and wrestle another. I agree with you az_wrestler, unfortunately things like injury time to rest, stalling, and manipulation of brackets do take place, and this FF'ing of a healthy wrestler in the finals is another example of those unfortunate tactics. Sad to say, it is part of the sport for some
My reference to "ducking" was to another post in this thread. Why would a coach hold his own guy out to preserve the seed of a guy from a different team you ask?" Maybe because the wrestlers are cousins, family has influence on staff, and wanted to preserve the seed of other wrestler. Interesting you say "to preserve the seed of the other guy." In a previous post you said it had nothing to do with that. If manipulating the bracket is your idea of good sportsmanship, than that is also your choice. We really don't have to argue, we both have our own opinions on the subject. Here's to a healthy and successful state tournament. Best of luck to your guys.
bayoubadger
Well-Known Member
Look even Cael Sanderson "Ducked" competition ;-):
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/346900/SANDERSON-BROTHERS-DECLARED-CO-CHAMPIONS.html
If I remember correctly the rule was put in place for them as they met in the finals of virtually every tournament they wrestled.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/346900/SANDERSON-BROTHERS-DECLARED-CO-CHAMPIONS.html
If I remember correctly the rule was put in place for them as they met in the finals of virtually every tournament they wrestled.
Lol, that's a little different, brothers from same school, not cousins different schools. I noticed there are no rules from USA wrestling pertaining to cousins? It's safe to say the Sanderson boys did not rely on cheap tactics to advance. Interesting find Bayoubadger, thanks for the input
bayoubadger
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, my brain is full of all sorts of useless knowledge like that.
Mike Jarman
Well-Known Member
There was zero family influence. The family had no idea Coach was gonna do it. Coach made the decision without any discussion. Zero seed preservation. 100% trying to have good sportsmanship.
Thanks for clearing that up. There are always three sides to a story: yours, his, and the truth. Enough bickering, best part of the season is here. Best of luck to you guys