liberty classic
- Thread starter joeswift
- Start date
whenndoubtchokemout
"when in doubt, chokem out"
I heard Liberty dodged Mesa Mt. View in a duel. What happened, I thought that was the main reason Mt. View registered for the tournament.
CVCougar
Well-Known Member
I doubt they dodged them. They usually separate the 2 best teams in the pool wrestling to get the best finals matches and Mtn View and Liberty should be separated. We have attended it for the 3 previous years, and the pools were always fair. I heard that Mtn. Views pool was by far the tougher one this year, but I am sure they expected that going in. Shout out to Marana Mtn. View and Wickenburg for always putting on great tournaments with very fair pools. There are plenty of other tournaments out there that are notorious for stacking opposite pools, but I am going to give Liberty HS the benefit of the doubt. He runs a great program over there.
TUMBLEWEED
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know where to find the individual and team results?
donrcovert
Active Member
Mtn. View won all seven of their Duals and had
7-1st
1-2nd
and 4 other placers in the individuals they got 2nd in the team standings behind Liberty. You may be able to watch the finals at
psbnonline.com they were some good matches all around.
7-1st
1-2nd
and 4 other placers in the individuals they got 2nd in the team standings behind Liberty. You may be able to watch the finals at
psbnonline.com they were some good matches all around.
TUMBLEWEED
Well-Known Member
wow!! Thats pretty crazy to have that many champions / placers and finish as runner up.
Liberty must be pretty stacked if they were able to beet MMV.
i was unable to watch the finals on the web site.
does anyone know where to find the individual and team results?
Liberty must be pretty stacked if they were able to beet MMV.
i was unable to watch the finals on the web site.
does anyone know where to find the individual and team results?
East Valley
Well-Known Member
First off congrats to Liberty! They have an incredible coaching staff & parent support. They are building it the right way. Under the guidelines that the tournament was using (& has used in the past) they won the tournament. End of story! After seeing them live I believe that they are the favorites to win the DII title this year.
I think originally Mtn View may have thought they would be able to go head to head with Liberty. Once the tournament started they knew how it was going to be scored. (Whether they liked it or not) They got what they wanted from the tournament. They put in freshman, JV & back up seniors in their lineups for each dual. They could have left all their starters in but they didn’t.
No one should blame Liberty or their coaches for the way the tournament was scored. That’s the way they have been running it & those kids did their jobs!
Any dual tournament with those rules however will always leave doubters. (Others are run the same way as mentioned above & some coaches won’t attend anymore) I have always felt that there is a simple way to legitimize the dual/top 3 in each pool format. (Although no one has ever asked my opinion. Haha)
1- If there is so much scoring emphasis placed on the dual portion. Then invite all the coaches to help evenly divide up the pools. (They did that for the top 3 finishers in each pool but not the teams) This would minimizes the debate.
If I personally was in charge of a tournament scored like this & I was privy to all the teams’ lineups a few days before the start. I like to hope that I would be unbiased. I personally just don’t know if I could be? Wanting to win like I do I might move certain matchups away from my team unconsciously? Let’s say I divided them in a totally fair manner. Without other coaches input it still opens me up to criticism about it.
I’m not saying the Liberty coaches & staff did anything wrong. They didn’t! (Especially under that format) It just leaves it up for debate. Who knows maybe that is good for wrestling.
Mtn View’s dual scoring average was 69.5 points & gave up an average of 8.1 points. At the end of the dual portion they were down by 24 points to Liberty. They had 12 in the medals, 7 Champions & 2 outstanding wrestlers. Liberty also had 12 in the medals & 4 Champions. (Not sure of their dual score average) When it was over Mtn View lost by 29 points I believe?
This is where the debate comes in. As far as head to head I believe they wrestled 9 of their weight classes Mtn View with a 5-4 advantage. I believe that Mtn View wins the dual with Liberty but I am a Mtn View guy. I’m sure that there are many arguments (From Liberty’s side) that Liberty would win the dual. (Trust me they looked good) It’s sad we didn’t get to see that. The finals however were really well done & the matches were really good!
Tumbleweed, here is what I wrote down during the finals. Sorry if I misspell or don’t know any names.
106- Liberty beat Desert Ridge (12-3)
113- Liberty beat Brophy (15-9)
120- Brophy beat Tollison (Medical fft, Tollison injured)
126- Evans (Mtn View) beat Paulick (Des Ridge) 4-0
132- Mason (Mtn View) beat Collins (Liberty) 9-2
145- Booth (Mtn View) pinned Chas Francina (Rancho Bernardo CA)
152- Wokasch (Mtn View) beat Dietz (Liberty) 9-2
160- Peters (Mtn View) pinned (Liberty)
170- (Liberty) beat Goff (Mtn View) 9-4
182- Blair (Rancho Bern. CA) pinned Miles (Liberty)
195- Smith (Liberty) pinned (Rancho Bernardo)
220- Jordan (Mtn View) beat Hulbert (liberty) 6-2
HWT- Valley Vista pinned Williams Field
I think originally Mtn View may have thought they would be able to go head to head with Liberty. Once the tournament started they knew how it was going to be scored. (Whether they liked it or not) They got what they wanted from the tournament. They put in freshman, JV & back up seniors in their lineups for each dual. They could have left all their starters in but they didn’t.
No one should blame Liberty or their coaches for the way the tournament was scored. That’s the way they have been running it & those kids did their jobs!
Any dual tournament with those rules however will always leave doubters. (Others are run the same way as mentioned above & some coaches won’t attend anymore) I have always felt that there is a simple way to legitimize the dual/top 3 in each pool format. (Although no one has ever asked my opinion. Haha)
1- If there is so much scoring emphasis placed on the dual portion. Then invite all the coaches to help evenly divide up the pools. (They did that for the top 3 finishers in each pool but not the teams) This would minimizes the debate.
If I personally was in charge of a tournament scored like this & I was privy to all the teams’ lineups a few days before the start. I like to hope that I would be unbiased. I personally just don’t know if I could be? Wanting to win like I do I might move certain matchups away from my team unconsciously? Let’s say I divided them in a totally fair manner. Without other coaches input it still opens me up to criticism about it.
I’m not saying the Liberty coaches & staff did anything wrong. They didn’t! (Especially under that format) It just leaves it up for debate. Who knows maybe that is good for wrestling.
Mtn View’s dual scoring average was 69.5 points & gave up an average of 8.1 points. At the end of the dual portion they were down by 24 points to Liberty. They had 12 in the medals, 7 Champions & 2 outstanding wrestlers. Liberty also had 12 in the medals & 4 Champions. (Not sure of their dual score average) When it was over Mtn View lost by 29 points I believe?
This is where the debate comes in. As far as head to head I believe they wrestled 9 of their weight classes Mtn View with a 5-4 advantage. I believe that Mtn View wins the dual with Liberty but I am a Mtn View guy. I’m sure that there are many arguments (From Liberty’s side) that Liberty would win the dual. (Trust me they looked good) It’s sad we didn’t get to see that. The finals however were really well done & the matches were really good!
Tumbleweed, here is what I wrote down during the finals. Sorry if I misspell or don’t know any names.
106- Liberty beat Desert Ridge (12-3)
113- Liberty beat Brophy (15-9)
120- Brophy beat Tollison (Medical fft, Tollison injured)
126- Evans (Mtn View) beat Paulick (Des Ridge) 4-0
132- Mason (Mtn View) beat Collins (Liberty) 9-2
145- Booth (Mtn View) pinned Chas Francina (Rancho Bernardo CA)
152- Wokasch (Mtn View) beat Dietz (Liberty) 9-2
160- Peters (Mtn View) pinned (Liberty)
170- (Liberty) beat Goff (Mtn View) 9-4
182- Blair (Rancho Bern. CA) pinned Miles (Liberty)
195- Smith (Liberty) pinned (Rancho Bernardo)
220- Jordan (Mtn View) beat Hulbert (liberty) 6-2
HWT- Valley Vista pinned Williams Field