Flowing Wells-- who's going? What matches to watch?

[chingon76]

Flowing wells is this weekend. Friday and Saturday. While the venue is horrible (crowded bleachers and horrible restrooms) the competition is always tough.
What are your picks?
According to track wrestling:
Here are some of the top teams-- (not in any particular order )
Safford
Seton
Thunderbird
Boulder creek

Cibola
Mesa mt view
Corona
Desert vista
Ironwood ridge

 

[East Valley]

I think at the end the top 3 teams will be Mtn View, Ironwood Ridge & Sunnyside. Not sure which order. I could be wrong. Just a hunch. I hope I'm surprised.

 

[whenndoubtchokemout]

Chandler will not be at Flowing Wells, will be attending Temecula "Battle for the Belt"

top 5
1a Ironwood Ridge
1b Mesa Mt. View
2. Sunnyside
3. Cibola
4. Seton Catholic
5. Corona

 

[az_wrestler]

seeding and brackets are done ....when will that be released to the public?...don't say Friday..your killing me Smalls

 

[TUMBLEWEED]

They are posted on track

 

[TUMBLEWEED]

Notice no 120 #'r for ironwood ridge.
Anyone know where Chuna and Castillo are? And why neither of them are wrestling.

 

[East Valley]

I don't know but IR has wrestled one of the toughest schedules this year. 3 out of state tournaments can wear you out.
The seeds look pretty fair for the most part. It will be a fun tournament!

Here are some “possible” matchups that would be fun to see.

128- Stone Crooks vs Klass in Quarters & the winner vs Salazar in the Semis.

134- Murrillo vs Laguna in the Quarters & the winner vs Kline. On the bottom Farina vs Mason in the Semis.

145- Dolce vs Kyle Taylor Quarters & the winner vs Crooks. Bottom Andrews vs Castaneda in the Semis. That will be a fun finals match. Taylor is tough I think he should have been on the other side.

152- Hovis vs Wokasch in the Finals.

160- Konecny vs Frias Finals.

 

[AzWrestlingFan]

Arizona's seeding criteria is a joke.

 

[chingon76]

Arizona's seeding criteria is a joke.

what particular wrestler did you feel deserved a better seed? Post it up so others can "weigh in" on the situation.

I understand some of the boys travel out of state for competition. That's to be commended, but a loss is still a loss. It should go on your record. You lost a match. You are performing during the AIA season and a win or loss should count.

I might be in the minority here but I'm of the mentality that the cream rises to the top. The best wrestlers will end up in the semis and finals. If a wrestler faces a top guy earlier... then the better wrestler will move forward in the competition. If you have to fight back through the ranks in consolation brackets... it will help you get better. More matches = more better

 

[chingon76]

criteria for flowing wells seeding
1. had 5 matches toward record
2.record winning percentage
3. record wins
4.flowing wells placing
5. state placing
6. other tournament placing
head to head will also be used

this doesn't seem to unfair to me

 

[AzWrestlingFan]

I did not say unfair, life is not fair, I said a joke. When you have kids that wrestle out of state at Flo National and Nationally recognized tournaments, place at them and their only losses are at those tournaments and then you have kids that haven't wrestled anyone with a "perfect" record in this state and they get higher seeding's, that is a joke. Many people say why penalize the kids that don't go out of state. I say why penalize the kids that wrestle the best in the nation, why not reward them with criteria that reflects who they have wrestled. If you do not chase after the best matches you can, whether it be in or out of state, then you should not be rewarded with a high seeding. The bottom line is the cream rises to the top no matter where you are seeded and I see it every year at these tournaments the kids that have a soft record get a ridiculous seed and lose after 1 or 2 matches. Arizona will never be regarded as a top notch wrestling state until all wrestlers are always looking for the best competition. Shame on the coaches that hide from good competition and set up soft opponents and then expect top seeding. That is what I mean when I say that the seeding criteria is a joke.

 

[East Valley]

I agree that the cream rises. Where it can hurt is the roll players on the team have a harder time overcoming bad seeds and scoring points at tournaments to help their team win.

One bright note for those who don't give AZ credit. In D1 the first 3 weight classes (& 120 in D2) all have national champions in them! Pretty cool.

 

[acestallion]

I did not say unfair, life is not fair, I said a joke. When you have kids that wrestle out of state at Flo National and Nationally recognized tournaments, place at them and their only losses are at those tournaments and then you have kids that haven't wrestled anyone with a "perfect" record in this state and they get higher seeding's, that is a joke. Many people say why penalize the kids that don't go out of state. I say why penalize the kids that wrestle the best in the nation, why not reward them with criteria that reflects who they have wrestled. If you do not chase after the best matches you can, whether it be in or out of state, then you should not be rewarded with a high seeding. The bottom line is the cream rises to the top no matter where you are seeded and I see it every year at these tournaments the kids that have a soft record get a ridiculous seed and lose after 1 or 2 matches. Arizona will never be regarded as a top notch wrestling state until all wrestlers are always looking for the best competition. Shame on the coaches that hide from good competition and set up soft opponents and then expect top seeding. That is what I mean when I say that the seeding criteria is a joke.

Are you talking about State, Flowing Wells or Arizona in general? Overall yes state seeding could be better and Flowing Wells looks ok. Every tournament is different though for example Peoria TOC has a pretty good seeding I would say. I remember a couple years ago Cox was 27-0 and he was seeded 3rd or 4th and there some kids with losses ahead of him. Servites 182 was seeded 1st over 2-time state champ Bambic and he ended up winning that as well. My point is each tournament is different it's too broad to say Arizona as a whole. But if you're talking about State then yes I would agree it could be a lot better I don't like the current format as you can have the top 3, 4, or 5 guys all in the same section and only 1 of them will be seeded.

 

[chingon76]

So... I guess my mind is never really made up on a subject... I spoke with some of my wrestling friends and one idea was (and I'm sure it's already been mentioned ):
Include a winning percentage against in-state competition
The losses still count on the record but this way win percentage would only count for "in state". Any holes in such a criteria?

 

[East Valley]

Sounds like a good idea to me! I know at Flowing Wells, in some cases, they did take out of state losses into consideration if the coaches had it documented. If they had placed at tough tournaments.

 

[TUMBLEWEED]

Been following the FW tourney for 25 years. This is the 1st time I can recall no Amphi. They are less then 5 miles from the Venue.
Chandler is another missing team.
looks like over all comp level is down in my opinion..
I think Peoria looked tougher then this line up??
Hear a lot of complaints about venue.. Maybe the tourney directors will take this to heart and improve for next year..
I hope so

 

[chingon76]

Sounds like a good idea to me! I know at Flowing Wells, in some cases, they did take out of state losses into consideration if the coaches had it documented. If they had placed at tough tournaments.

That's good to hear. I think AIA guys like dean visser should hear these concerns. It's the only way things will change.

 

[chingon76]

Been following the FW tourney for 25 years. This is the 1st time I can recall no Amphi. They are less then 5 miles from the Venue.
Chandler is another missing team.
looks like over all comp level is down in my opinion..
I think Peoria looked tougher then this line up??
Hear a lot of complaints about venue.. Maybe the tourney directors will take this to heart and improve for next year..
I hope so

I agree that the venue is horribly antiquated / gross / crowded. The restroom floor is always wet (I hope that's water )

Peoria was tougher? Cibola wasn't there. Mesa mt view wasn't there. Ironwood ridge wasn't there. Corona wasn't there. The competition level at flowing wells this year is on par (if not higher) than Peoria IMHO

 

[Hillis]

Cleveland from NM has been 5A NM state champs. Think they still go to FW?

 

[SPRAWL]

Cleveland from NM has been 5A NM state champs. Think they still go to FW?

Cleveland from NM is on the team list on Trackwrestling, but they only have 6 kids on the roster!